Talk:Andermani Nobility
German terms German terms are welcome too. Eg. "Das Herzogstum"?dotz 12:56, 26 November 2008 (UTC) :Good point. If we stick to the Andermani Empire's lingua franka being German, the "Duchy of Rabenstrange" would be the Herzogtum Rabenstrange (of / von is not used in our peerage names. -- SaganamiFan 14:37, 26 November 2008 (UTC) ::"Graftum" and "Barontum":)? -- dotz 15:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC) :::"Grafschaft" and "Baronat" :-) although "Baron" was never actually used in Germany, we call a baron a "Freiherr" and a barony a "Freiherrentum", but I think Weber did use baron, so let's stick to it... -- SaganamiFan 15:12, 26 November 2008 (UTC) ::::Thx. Checked - title of Baron also appeared in Germany, but later (all Freiherrs were Barons, but not all Barons were Freiherrs).dotz 15:37, 26 November 2008 (UTC) :::::Well, well, another Andermani aristocrat found and outside of IAN ranks.--dotz 13:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC) Herzogtum vs. Herzog I don't exactly know how this works in the United Kingdom and, to be honest, I may be wrong about Germany, too, but when we talk about the Andermani nobility we are talking about the titles, aren't we? So it has to be, for example, Herzog Rabenstrange and not Herzogtum Rabenstrange. A Herzogtum is the political body and its territories, the titel of its ruler is Herzog. It is, however, not a noble house (what is why all the articles on the Andermani nobility seem to be phrased wrong in my understanding, we absolutly don't know which noble houses there are in the Andermani Empire, except the Haus Anderman, which, to illustrate the point, holds the noble titel of Andermani "Kaiser" because it reigns the Andermani "Kaisertum".)--Bravomike 19:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC) :Good point (SaganamiFan maked some speculations, probably based on Manticoran peerage). Real world (UK) has honorary life long peers also.--dotz 21:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC) ::Dotz is actually correct in that I used a certain degree of speculation on this one (or should I say we did, since I wasn't the one to start this article...) ::First, the German word "Herzogtum" is in fact used for both territories and mere titles: a "Territorialherzogtum" is a certain territory, while a "Titularherzogtum" is an honorary life one. As with the Manti peerages, I found it more practical to use a gender-neutral term, because a Herzog can also be a Herzogin, just like a Duke can be a Duchess. ::I was aware of these complications, but did not want to further complicate matters at the time since the Andermani titles play only a minor role. In fact, we could have used the word "peerage" to describe what we're talking about here, but it is a term used very specifically in the real-world UK, so I (again) speculated that it may be a Manticore-only term in the Honorverse. That's why I used the somewhat problematic term "noble house", which maybe we should change into "title of nobility"... ::Give me your thoughts, guys! -- SaganamiFan 22:25, 18 June 2009 (UTC) You are right, in the end, I think, it is quite irrelevant what terms we use on this page, but we get a problem in the articles. In the moment everey article linked here starts like this example: The Herzogtum Rabenstrange was an Andermani noble house ...http://honorverse.wikia.com/index.php?title=Herzogtum_Rabenstrange&oldid=18029, which is odd because the "Herzogtum" is not a "noble house". I think we have to decide what we want to focus on, the entity, the title or the noble house, and then use the correct terms. So we can to choose from these options: *The Herzogtum Rabenstrange was an Andermani duchy. *'Herzog von Rabenstrange' was an Andermani noble title. *The family of the von Rabenstranges was an Andermani noble house in possession of a Herzogtum. I would prefe "Herzog von Rabenstrange", but I admit that using a gender-neutral term would be nice, so it is not the best option. The third variant would describe the Andermani noble houses and therewith the Andermani nobility best, but it seems a little bit complicated. So in the end I would vote for leting the article titles like they are (I know, I started this to change it, but I have rethought the issue) but to move this page back? to Andermani Peerage (I perfectly understand your thoughts about "peerage" being a British/Manticorian technical term, but a "Herzogtum" is not an element of nobility either) and then changing all the intro sentences in the articles. Consistently we should do the same rewording in all the Manti peerage articles.--Bravomike 23:22, 18 June 2009 (UTC) :The "peerage" solution sounds fine to me. The matter is made even more difficult when we consider the fact that the name of a peerage isn't generally the name of the family holding it ( the family holding the Rabenstrange peerage is actually called "Anderman"... ) same goes with many Grayson Steadings. However, it would be VERY impractical to have different articles on every family AND peerage, since there is often little information given on them anyway, and the little there is would often be redundant... so I think it would be a good idea to stick to "peerage" and simply use the Manti articles as a pattern. -- SaganamiFan 00:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC) Good point, I hasn't even thought about the possibility that the Herzogtum Rabenstrange could be hold by another house than the von Rabenstranges (if a house like this even exists).--Bravomike 07:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)